AMERICA has told Britain that it can "kidnap" British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.
A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.
The admission will alarm the British business community after the case of the so-called NatWest Three, bankers who were extradited to America on fraud charges. More than a dozen other British executives, including senior managers at British Airways and BAE Systems, are under investigation by the US authorities and could face criminal charges in America.
Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the "extraordinary rendition" of terrorist suspects.
The American government has for the first time made it clear in a British court that the law applies to anyone, British or otherwise, suspected of a crime by Washington.
Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.
The US government's view emerged during a hearing involving Stanley Tollman, a former director of Chelsea football club and a friend of Baroness Thatcher, and his wife Beatrice.
The Tollmans, who control the Red Carnation hotel group and are resident in London, are wanted in America for bank fraud and tax evasion. They have been fighting extradition through the British courts.
During a hearing last month Lord Justice Moses, one of the Court of Appeal judges, asked Alun Jones QC, representing the US government, about its treatment of Gavin, Tollman's nephew. Gavin Tollman was the subject of an attempted abduction during a visit to Canada in 2005.
Jones replied that it was acceptable under American law to kidnap people if they were wanted for offences in America. "The United States does have a view about procuring people to its own shores which is not shared," he said.
He said that if a person was kidnapped by the US authorities in another country and was brought back to face charges in America, no US court could rule that the abduction was illegal and free him: "If you kidnap a person outside the United States and you bring him there, the court has no jurisdiction to refuse -- it goes back to bounty hunting days in the 1860s."
Mr Justice Ouseley, a second judge, challenged Jones to be "honest about [his] position".
Jones replied: "That is United States law."
He cited the case of Humberto Alvarez Machain, a suspect who was abducted by the US government at his medical office in Guadalajara, Mexico, in 1990. He was flown by Drug Enforcement Administration agents to Texas for criminal prosecution.
Although there was an extradition treaty in place between America and Mexico at the time -- as there currently is between the United States and Britain -- the Supreme Court ruled in 1992 that the Mexican had no legal remedy because of his abduction.
In 2005, Gavin Tollman, the head of Trafalgar Tours, a holiday company, had arrived in Toronto by plane when he was arrested by Canadian immigration authorities.
An American prosecutor, who had tried and failed to extradite him from Britain, persuaded Canadian officials to detain him. He wanted the Canadians to drive Tollman to the border to be handed over. Tollman was escorted in handcuffs from the aircraft in Toronto, taken to prison and held for 10 days.
A Canadian judge ordered his release, ruling that the US Justice Department had set a "sinister trap" and wrongly bypassed extradition rules. Tollman returned to Britain.
Legal sources said that under traditional American justice, rendition meant capturing wanted people abroad and bringing them to the United States. The term "extraordinary rendition" was coined in the 1990s for the kidnapping of terror suspects from one foreign country to another for interrogation.
There was concern this weekend from Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP, who said: "The very idea of kidnapping is repugnant to us and we must handle these cases with extreme caution and a thorough understanding of the implications in American law."
Shami Chakrabarti, director of the human rights group Liberty, said: "This law may date back to bounty hunting days, but they should sort it out if they claim to be a civilised nation."
The US Justice Department declined to comment.
The only thing that shocks me about these comments is the Traitors in our midsts. Americans actually saying that duly elected officials should be sent to foreign countries to be tried? The rest of them are the usual poisonous comments from men and women who hate because that is all that is left for them to do. As for the Kidnapping of a foreigner who break laws in the US to be tried in a US court, what does anyone expect? If countries deported criminals without the usual left bellyaching this would be a non-starter. The US has always extradited its criminal class to foreign governments that had just cause. That has not been reciprocal. Foreign governments have often denied the US criminals, even if US citizens. Furthermore, when a deportation took place, often they were sent with caveats on what punishments these criminals could be given.
M, Milwaukee, USA/WI
Well..at least theres a legitimate reason for a kidnapping should it ever occur. Unlike when the British impressed/kidnapped thousands of Americans to man their ships of sail.
Whoops!!..maybe I shouldn't have said that here as all Europeans seem to be suffering from German amnesia these days.
Murph, Madisonville, USA/KY
Could you guys please kidnap me? I'm tired of living in a police state. :[
Dietrich, baylor, FL / USA
I would not worry too much if they come looking for you. Look how long they have been searching for Bin Laden LOL
Stephen Croft, Ranong, Ex UK, Yorkshire
First, Bounty hunting is the act of a private citizen going to Britain with the knowledge and intent of breaking your laws to get a person wanted in the United States. It is also usually a private and contractual matter as well, since most, if not all, Bounty Hunts would arrange from someone jumping bail and the bondsmen who posted the bail sending out the Hunters.
Its legal in the United States cause the Courts don't care how a bail-jumper gets to court, just that they are present. You signed the contract, you broke the rules, you deal with the consequences.
Use of it by the United States government using it's own agents would be problematic, particularly if the party were merely a fugitive and not a bail hopper. We have better things to do then annoy our friends the Brits, but if the jumper disappears one night in Britain, who among you is really going to care that one American you thought was a tourists, just disappears? Who will even notice?
Stephen T, Staten Island / New York, USA / NY
It is funny how people talk about bounty hunting and assume that it applies to the government doing the same thing. If a person jumps bail and then goes to another country they think are immune from deportation. However, as most people who get bail use a bail bondsman to put up a bond and pay a percentage of the actual bail. They also sign a legal contract understanding that a bailbondsman will track them down if they do not show up for their hearing.
If a bailbondsman goes into another country and brings the person back then the person has no legal recourse to claim they should be released on those grounds. However, a bondsman also risks being charged with kidnapping by the other country. There was a famous case where this happened between Canada and the US. A man jumped bail and fled to canada as the charge was not a deportable one. The bounty hunters brought him back, but then Canada charged the bounty hunters with kidnapping which was deportable for.
Ronald, College Station, TX
I find it morally repugnant that my nation should act when there are laws ALREADY in place for criminals to be extradicted to this country. Maybe they should act on changing the law and not side-stepping it. All this does is undermine the trust shared between nations who have already agreed. If the case can be proved they will be extradicted if not..... Who ever said lifes' always fair hasn't really lived it.
Hadley Scott, Lebanon, USA / Penna.
Axis of Evil .. Shock and Awe .. Extraordinary Rendition .. Illegal Occupation.. If you're Not with us you are against US... And now Government sanctioned international Kidnapping! Wow .. sit tight - This is the New World Order.
leon, Melbourne, Australia
I must apologise to Bruce Steele and his fellow Americans. Apparently they are given information about the real world and can make reasoned decisions. CNN has just reported that US intelligence agencies undercut the White House yesterday by disclosing for the first time that Iran has not been pursuing a nuclear weapons development programme for the past four years. The secret report, which was declassified yesterday and published, marked a significant shift from previous estimates. "Tehran's decision to halt its nuclear weapons programme suggests it is less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005," it said.
Hoo boy; wanna bet George W Bush will now pull his head in? Be interesting to see how the World's Policeman responds to learning it has been getting it wrong again. Superpower?? Yeah, right.
Allan Watson, Redland City, Australia
After reading this article, it once again makes me ashamed to have anything to do with my home country. Perhaps we should just call it the United States of George? It makes me want to apologize to the world at large. Luckily it is now impossible to have four more years of the current regime, but the damages have been done.
Michael, Sunnyvale,
Britian,
Please, please, please kidnap any/all American criminals and take them all back to the UK.
Such a non-issue but it sure pushes the button for all the ant-Americans. You guys are just too easy.
Hotspur, Atlnta, USA
"At least when Amer. goes after someone there has been charges brought in a real court and upon return to the states that person will receive legal counsel,have a trial in open court and receive all of our Constitutional protections. We are attempting to bring criminals to justice. Bruce Steele, Tully, USA/NY"
Really? You live in dream world. You hit the nail on the head though when you said "We are attempting to bring criminals to justice"
Criminals? Pre trial? You call that justice?
fred, nookastle,
Its clear from reading 90% of the American comments here that you guys take this discussion very personally. In my opinion, your policy makers alienate the rest of the world (yes, there is one guys), while destroying belief in our own police and security forces. I am unsure if we (Great Britatin) are able to execute such inconsiderate facist actions on American soil. Even if we could, would we risk any more pressure on "the special relationship?"
Rupert, Torquay, England
This article makes it seem as if a US lawyer has threatened Britain with this type of kidnapping. Are we sure it should be put in this context, or was it merely that a British lawyer or judge asked an American lawyer for a legal opinion? It would not surprise me if the US Congress has not passed a law that explicitly states that the US cannot kidnap someone on foreign territory and bring them back to the US for trial.
Are you "this is why everyone hates America" folks sure that Britain has a law stating that your government cannot kidnap wanted persons here in the US or in other countries?
Josh, Arizona, USA
<>It is a problem if is more like a global Gestapo run to serve the interest and whims of the powerful and isolated few. I don't know which way it is heading.<
>
America is headed toward a global Gestapo. This behavior is not normal! I wish more Brits and Europeans would wake up to what is really happening in the US. I'm an American saying this. I moved to the UK to get away from the American brownshirts, little did I know....
It isn't clear to me that the US Supreme Court ruled that this type of rendition is legal. It was ruled legal in the Mexican case because the US had an extradition case with Mexico. The Neo-Con lawyers have a tendency to re-intepret the law as they see fit.
Erin, London,
I do hope Bruce Steele, Tully, USA/NY is kidding. President George W Bush has shown utter contempt for the US Constitution, its Congress, the Founding Fathers, and the American people in general, so how does he really know how any kidnap victim will be treated there? Problem is, the good old US of A does not have an educated public which knows the truth of what is going on in its own back yard. Try finding out how many of the poor schmuks in Guantanamo Bay are guilty of anything
Allan Watson, Redland City, Australia
Why should every other nation on the planet give two-hoots as to what congress and Bush rules is sanctioned! If those 'Bounty Hunter' laws are used to kidnap foreigners, the kidnappers have broken the laws of whichever country that was and therefore are accountable to that country.
This is further proof of the evil fascism encouraged by the Patriot Acts and just what is required for the biblical 'End Days' scenario of the 'War on the Saints' or anyone refusing their 'Mark of the Beast', when it kicks in.
Stuart Harrison, Dorset, England
Its called extradition and rendition, not kidnapping.
Maybe the UK shouldn't have signed that extradition treaty with the US then if people wanted the UK to serve as a safe haven for people to break US law?
Wait....I've changed my mind...this article is right. We should make it harder to arrest suspected criminals, not easier. /sarcasm.
Corky St. Clair, Baltimore, Maryland
Perhaps the UK shouldn't have signed an extradition treaty with the US in 2003 if they wanted to harbor criminals?
Corky St. Clair, Boise, Idaho
Sounds like Bobby Fischer needs to move to a safe house. Iceland (that's the country, not the supermarket) is no longer beyond the reach of US snatch squads. "The Great Satan", now who was it that said that? Oh right, that dead guy.
Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Japan Alps
The quote concerns America's having passed from barbarism to decadence, and it's from old G.B. Shaw. And it has proved an observation of great prescience.
JOHN CHUCKMAN, TORONTO, Canada
I think that my country should kidnap a few American politicians just for being the idiots that even americans are ashamed of.
Joe Henderson, Gosport, United Kingdom
I can understand how Britan (a highly respected country in the US) would be upset over forced extradition. Can you understand how the US would be upset when British criminals aren't sent for trial? Bounty hunting is one of those activites that lives on the fringes of legality and acceptability. There is no way to make it pretty.
Before a person berates the US government for some of its "hidden" activites, please step back for a moment, find a realistic perspective, and ask yourself if none of that ever happens within your own government. That doesn't mean I'm endorsing it, just pointing out that soapbox you're standing on might be made of cardboard. Some of you live in countries that I know first-hand are riddled with corruption. Corruption only exists when the government allows it (and usually is at the center of it).
Carmen from Nashville: Info to surrender your citizenship is at www.uscis.gov or 1-800-375-5283 . You talk the talk; you gonna walk the walk?
Dennis, Waterloo, USA / Iowa
There is a solution. Extradition is a more valuable resource than rendition. Make it a requirement that no nation that engages in, or whose laws admit rendition shall be entitled to power of extradition.
As to recent U.S. cases, as a lawyer with over 55 years at the Bar, I am still toubled by what we did with the "President" of Panama.
The NatWest 3 case is, the gravemen being acts soley in the UK is equally unsustainable.
R. Richard Schweitzer, Atlanta, USA